For example, if you run the SETI@home screensaver (which uses lots of floating-point calculations to perform signal processing operations on radio telescope data), a G4 running at 500 megahertz (MHz) will produce a result set in about half the time of a Pentium III running at 700 MHz. ... Pentium 4 800FSB AMD 3.3GHz 8MB Specifications. It won't happen when the 970 is first released, and may not happen for several speed bumps. FFT Accuracy Benchmark Results. AMD Phenom II X4 970 vs. Intel Pentium Gold G5500 - Benchmark, Risultati benchmark Geekbench 5, Cinebench R20, Cinebench R23, Cinebench R15 e FP32 iGPU (GFLOPS) oltre a dati tecnici dettagliati Instructions per cycle. The PowerPC G5 (970) is a brand name that was used by Apple Computer for the 5th and final generation of microprocessors from the PowerPC line. AMD AMD Phenom II X4 970. IBM PowerPC 970FX : Superscalar ... and the Opteron only needs 17. At the Power Mac G5's introduction, Apple announced a partnership with IBM in which IBM would continue to produce PowerPC variants of their POWER processors. IBM 970 - up to 1.8GHz - 800MHz System Bus - DDR RAM - .13 Micron Manufacturing (moving to 90nm) - 512K L2 Cache - 64-bit Processing All-in-all, the 970 KILLS the G4. I'm really excited about the 970. Personally if I had to choose between the two the former would win every time. Jump to • Specifications . PowerPC IBM 750xx (G3) Motorola 74xx (G4) IBM 970 (G5) The current G4 CPUs run at significantly lower speeds compared with the x86 CPUs which are now above 2GHz (P4 > 3GHz). They're pricey 'cause they're meant for servers. The Pentium 4 and the G4e: an Architectural Comparison: Part I When the Pentium 4 hit the market in November of 2000, it was the first major … Jon Stokes - May 12, 2001 1:45 am UTC They do not include a L3 cache, because the front side bus speed, and therefore the main memory, is run at the same speed. 2. So instead of increasing the performance of desktop and server systems by using a few narrow, very high clockspeed, high power CPUs IBM would rather see multiple, slower but wider, lower power CPUs ganged together via very … G4s execute a maximum of 3 instructions per clock cycle. Meanwhile, the BUS on the 970 is scalable, already moving to smaller process, designed for multiprocessor designs, and is well designed in general. This is certainly the case in OSX 10.2 at least. Intel® Pentium® D Processor 940 (4M Cache, 3.20 GHz, 800 MHz FSB) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec … At least we're getting into some real comparisons where the 970 is faster at everything than an equal speed P4. Processor Performance Comparisons -SPEC 95 . I know a lot of SMP'ers just drooling at the thought. I need all the speed I can get, I do a lot of 3D modelling and my Mac is just not fast enough. 65 nm. A Pentium 4 requires a minimum of two operations to complete this algorithm, one multiply and one addition. The PowerPC 7450 "Voyager"/"V'ger" was the only major redesign of the G4 processor. However, at the expected release date of 2H03, the PowerPC 970 would presumably have to compete against a 3.0+ GHz, Prescott based Pentium X processor. I've heard PowerPC tech is supposed to be better than Pentium tech tho. The Velocity Engine processes data in huge 128-bit chunks, instead of the smaller 32-bit chunks used in Intel maximum clock rate 3.47 vs. PowerPC maximum clock rate 1.6 GHz 3. I can't help but to wonder if anyone has realized that Intel is slowing down on faster chips because they run too hot. 4. I have started to use a PC for it now. Like the preceding PowerPC G4, they include support for the AltiVec instruction set. Since the FFT accuracy graphs exhibit a number of interesting features whose meaning may not be immediately obvious, you may also want to read our commentary on the results. Just like the P4 decomposes x86 instructions into smaller, simpler micro-ops (uops), the 970 "cracks" PowerPC … For example, if you run the SETI@home screensaver (which uses lots of floating-point calculations to perform signal processing operations on radio telescope data), a G4 running at 500 megahertz (MHz) will produce a result set in about half the time of a Pentium III running at 700 MHz. It has a hardware prefetch unit and a three way branch prediction unit.. Like the POWER4, the front-end is nine stages long. Intel maximum clock rate 3.47 It's not so much RISC vs CISC. They were designed at the Somerset facility in Austin, Texas, jointly funded and staffed by engineers from IBM and Motorola as a part of the AIM alliance.Somerset was opened in 1992 and its goal was to make the first PowerPC processor and then keep designing general purpose PowerPC processors for personal computers. Intel chips are undoubtedly faster than PowerPC. kuwan writes "IBM has just released a press release that indicates they have the new PowerPC 970 running at 1.8 to 2.5 GHz making it 'the fastest PowerPC so far.' PowerPC 970 — the original G5 was used in the first Power Mac G5 desktop computers in June 2003. AMD AMD Phenom II X4 970. Instructions per cycle. I think it's easy to lose sight of reality here. Most of them have to make do with Athlon MP's or P3's if they want to SMP. AMD AMD Phenom II X4 970 vs Intel Pentium G4560. Intel is going to sit around 3 GHz for much longer than we'd expect. The PowerPC 970 is a single core derivative of the POWER4 and can process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively. Which do we want most, an awesome new processor in our Macs or an 'Intel killer'? 1. 2. ... Intel Pentium 4 524 : Join the discussion. Of course, as many have pointed out, the 970 1.8 GHz chip will be "only" on par with a 4 GHz P4. Intel Pentium G3420 For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. G3) blows past the Apple has the benchmarks to prove it, thanks to BYTE magazine’s cross-platform BYTEmark. PowerPC IBM 750xx (G3) Motorola 74xx (G4) IBM 970 (G5) The current G4 CPUs run at significantly lower speeds compared with the x86 CPUs which are now above 2GHz (P4 > 3GHz). Practically, every modern processor is kind of a crossover of those two techniques. Intel Pentium G4560. The PowerPC 7450 "Voyager"/"V'ger" was the only major redesign of the G4 processor. Below you will find various processor comparisons for PowerPC, Intel based chips and chips from other manufactures. The PowerPC 600 family was the first family of PowerPC processors built. Also when Apple releases the 970, Intel will be at 4-5Ghz. The PowerPC pipeline has sixteen stages, the Pentium 4 twenty, and the Athlon ten. 4 MB. Features — The Pentium 4 and the G4e: an Architectural Comparison: Part I When the Pentium 4 hit the market in November of 2000, it was the first major … Jon Stokes - May 12, 2001 1:45 am UTC Le specifiche tecniche sono gestite dell'organizzazione Power.org di cui IBM e Freescale Semiconductor sono membri. Scopri quale è il migliore e la loro prestazione generale nella classifica CPU´s. But if Intel could reinstitute SMP capability in the consumer-level P4's, then we're talking. It may not display this or other websites correctly. PowerPC 970 family 970 (2003), 64-bit, derived from POWER4 , enhanced with VMX , 512 kB L2 cache, 1.4–2 GHz 970FX (2004), manufactured at 90 nm , 1.8–2.7 GHz Intel Pentium D 970 vs 4 672 ... Intel Pentium 4 672 : Join the discussion. Hardly within range at all, considering a Pentium 4 could decode nearly 6 voices to match the load the 360 CPU endures. 1. Differences What are the advantages of each. The PowerPC 970 is a single core derivative of the POWER4 and can process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively. No way. I would like to see real world tests comparing the 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single processor P4. IBM announced the PowerPC 970 in October 200… The 970FX also had a much longer data pipeline than the original 970 to help boost clock speed, much like the Pentium 4. Compare CPUs. You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 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See our accuracy benchmark methodology page for a description of how we measure FFT accuracy, as well as an explanation of what is plotted in the graphs below.. When it arrives, the PowerPC 970 will max out at 1.8 GHz compared to the top speed of 1.25 GHz of the G4 today. Intel has already planned a new processor >4GHz P5, while the 970 will not reach comparable speeds. Of course, as many have pointed out, the 970 1.8 GHz chip will be "only" on par with a 4 GHz P4. i find it very strange over here at macrumors... Two processors also help when running more then one app at once. PowerPC (with the backronym Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC – Performance Computing, sometimes abbreviated as PPC) is a reduced instruction set computer (RISC) instruction set architecture (ISA) created by the 1991 Apple–IBM–Motorola alliance, known as AIM.PowerPC, as an evolving instruction set, has since 2006 been named Power ISA, while the old … quote:...heavy Photoshop plugin tests while burning a DVD and rendinging in Maya all at the same time, I also do not quite understand why people are saying that the 970 will blow Intel out of the water? Much more l2 cache. The PowerPC 970 will be able to execute a maximum of 8 instructions per cycle. IBM PowerPC 970FX : Superscalar ... and the Opteron only needs 17. Right behind my eyeballs, around 2 inches back. Reasons to buy the Intel Pentium D 970. Washington, DC / Rochester, NY / Lexington, NC, Right behind my eyeballs, around 2 inches back. Yeah, those are the P4 Xeons, though. You are using an out of date browser. On the other hand a longer pipeline increases the probability … The PowerPC 970 has other potential customers as well, though, not the least of which is IBM itself who, with its large investments in Linux, would love to see a high-performance, 970-based 4-way or 8-way SMP Linux desktop workstation halt the steady flow of former 64-bit *NIX workstation users who began switching to Wintel hardware in the late 90's. AMD AMD Phenom II X4 970 vs Intel Pentium G4560. Because the PowerPC 970 has two floating-point units, it can perform two FMAC functions per clock cycle (maximum theoretical throughput). Here's where things get tricky. I guess that's. All modern 32-bit x86 processors since the Pentium Pro have the Physical Address Extension (PAE) feature, which permits them to use a 36-bit physical memory address to address a maximum of 2 36 bytes (64 gigabytes) of physical memory, while the PowerPC 970 processor is capable of addressing 2 42 bytes (4 terabytes) of physical memory and 2 64 bytes (16 exabytes) of virtual memory. The recently announced PowerPC 970 currently runs up to 2GHz … PowerPC 当年异常强大,曾经是 Xbox 的处理器,是Mac的处理器,占据了服务器的半壁江山;当时刚刚接触 CP… Please visit IBM PowerPC 603 180 MHz and Intel Pentium 90 MHz pages for more detailed specifications of both microprocessors. Intel Pentium 4. . Based on 2,434 user benchmarks for the Intel Pentium 4 2.60GHz and the Pentium B970, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 1,272 CPUs. JavaScript is disabled. At least the speed gap isn't embarrassing anymore!" The 33-million transistor chip extended significantly the execution pipeline of 7400 (7 vs. 4 stages minimum) to reach higher clock speeds, improved instruction throughput (3 + branch vs. 2 + branch per cycle) to compensate for higher instruction latency, replaced an external L2 cache (up to 2 MB 2-way … PowerPC vs Intel: Top Tier Chip Performance Compared Including G4, G3, Pentium, Celeron, Alpha, Athlon And Ultra SPARC II | Macintosh vs Windows Index | Processor Performance Comparisons -SPEC 95 . Unlike previous generation PowerPC processors from the AIM alliance, Motorola (later Freescale) did not make any G5 processors; these were produced solely by IBM. At best, the Apple-PC speed gap will be reduced. Both the 970 and the Power4, much like the Pentium and the Athlon, convert instructions in their "native" ISA into a special internal instruction format for execution. You must log in or register to reply here. With a larger L2 cache, an astoundingly fast system bus, actual support for DDR memory, and a more efficient design, the 970 should slaughter the G4. It is true that the G4 is faster than the Pentium III on many tasks. They already have working 4Ghz prototypes. Inside the PowerPC 970 Part II: The Execution Core by Jon "Hannibal" Stokes Some historical perspective One fact that's often overlooked in discussions of IBM's upcoming 64-bit Power4 derivative desktop chip is that the PowerPC 970 is not IBM's first desktop PowerPC CPU. Intel Pentium D 970 vs 4 630 ... Intel Pentium 4 630 : Join the discussion. The PowerPC 970 can fetch and decode up to eight instructions, dispatch up to five to reserve stations, issue up to eight to the … Differences What are the advantages of each. and you gotta know that 90% of the people going to buy a computer look for the teh most mhz for the cheapest amount of money, thats by far the first thing they look for. VS. older Released April, 2006. You must log in or register to reply here. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The PowerPC G5 (called the PowerPC 970 by its manufacturer, IBM) is based upon IBM's 64-bit POWER4 microprocessor. As CPUs designed for servers, low power consumption was not one of IBM’s goals, so the G5 Power Macs all needed very sophisticated cooling systems to deal with the heat the PowerPC 970 created. Both the 970 and the Power4, much like the Pentium and the Athlon, convert instructions in their "native" ISA into a special internal instruction format for execution. I can't help but to wonder if anyone has realized that Intel is slowing down on faster chips because they run too hot. According to IBM's Dr. John E. Kelly, "The goal of this partnership is for Apple and IBM to come … No more of that crap about the Mac being twice as fast only in AltiVec-optimized Photoshop. In 2004, Apple moved to IBM’s improved CPU, the 970FX with a 64 KB instruction cache and 32 KB data cache – a step forward from using 32 KB for each throughout the G3 and G4 eras. PowerPC 970FX. The Pentium 4 architecture scaled well if high clock speeds were achieved (which it did in the end), but power issues were too grave by then. Differences What are the advantages of each. Reasons to consider the Intel Pentium D 970 : 3.8 GHz. G4s execute a maximum of 3 instructions per clock cycle. Intel chips are undoubtedly faster than PowerPC. I've heard PowerPC tech is supposed to be better than Pentium tech tho. In fact, it also isn't the first 64-bit desktop PowerPC CPU. | Macintosh vs Windows Index |. PowerPC (dove PC sta per di Performance Computing) è un'architettura di microprocessori RISC creata nel 1991 dall'alleanza Apple-IBM-Motorola (conosciuta come AIM). AMD Athlon X4 970 vs Intel Pentium G3420. It is true that the G4 is faster than the Pentium III on many tasks. 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Reasons to consider the Intel Pentium D 970 : Report a correction: Much newer manufacturing process: 65 nm: vs: Presumably the P4 can reach higher clock speeds than the Athlon because there is less work to do at each pipeline stage. The computer had a total of nine cooling fans to control temperatures. The first G5 CPU, the PowerPC 970, built on everything IBM had learned in producing its POWER4CPU for servers. ... For certain types of operations, as the BYTEmark results showed, the PowerPC G3 processor is twice as fast as a Pentium II at the same MHz rating. ...the PowerPC 970 will surely be underwhelming--less of a "WOW" and more of a "Whew, just made it," and that's assuming all goes well. PowerPC era il settore CPU della piattaforma dell'AIM, e ad oggi ne è l'unica parte che resta.. 2. The 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 currently achieves a SPEC CPU 2000 INT score of 970 (base) and a SPEC CPU 2000 FP score of 976 (base). PowerPC is Power-based architecture whose main feature is its reduced instruction set computing (RISC). I think some of us should reconsider our priorities. Intel Pentium D 970 vs 4 672 ... Intel Pentium 4 672 : Join the discussion. Below you will find various processor comparisons for PowerPC, Intel based chips and chips from other manufactures. Just like the P4 decomposes x86 instructions into smaller, simpler micro-ops (uops), the 970 "cracks" PowerPC instructions into smaller, simpler sets of "iops". Intel Pentium 4. Intel Pentium 4 524 . Qual è la differenza fra Intel Pentium G3420T e AMD AMD Phenom II X4 970? Differences What are the advantages of each. As I noted on Low End Mac three months ago (the day I received the November 1997 issue of BYTE), the PowerPC 750 (a.k.a. It has a hardware prefetch unit and a three way branch prediction unit.. Like the POWER4, the front-end is nine stages long. Velocità dell'unità CPU 2.81x più alta? Testing was done using SPEC 95 the industry standard for measuring raw processor performance and scores are based on the manufacturer's published results. Well, on the other hand, we can say, "Geez, at least its better than nothing. Here's where things get tricky. JavaScript is disabled. Much newer manufacturing process. The PowerPC 970 has other potential customers as well, though, not the least of which is IBM itself who, with its large investments in Linux, would love to see a high-performance, 970-based 4-way or 8-way SMP Linux desktop workstation halt the steady flow of former 64-bit *NIX workstation users who began switching to Wintel hardware in the late 90's. G4 vs. Pentium III. The recently announced PowerPC 970 currently runs up to 2GHz … Daniel Knight - 1999.09.06. When it arrives, the PowerPC 970 will max out at 1.8 GHz compared to the top speed of 1.25 GHz of the G4 today. This difference in clockspeed headroom reflects a fundamental difference in the approaches of the PPC 970 and the Pentium 4. 26 dati a confronto. Inside the PowerPC 970 Part II: The Execution Core by Jon "Hannibal" Stokes Some historical perspective One fact that's often overlooked in discussions of IBM's upcoming 64-bit Power4 derivative desktop chip is that the PowerPC 970 is not IBM's first desktop PowerPC CPU. Scores are relative to … The PowerPC 970's GHz rating, then, will top out at a much lower number than will the P4's. AMD Athlon X4 970. A Pentium 4 requires a minimum of two operations to complete this algorithm, one multiply and one addition. Based on 7,825 user benchmarks for the Intel Pentium 4 3.00GHz and the Pentium B970, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 1,263 CPUs. The PowerPC 970 will be able to execute a maximum of 8 instructions per cycle. ...heavy Photoshop plugin tests while burning a DVD and rendinging in Maya all at the same time. A PowerPC 970 can perform this common function in one instruction. Reasons to consider the Intel Pentium D 970 : Report a correction: Much newer manufacturing process: 65 nm: vs: 90 nm: Intel chips have higher power consumption due to techniques used for higher performance and clock speed. Hardly within range at all, considering a Pentium 4 could decode nearly 6 voices to match the load the 360 CPU endures. Reasons to consider the Intel Pentium D 970 : Report a correction: Much higher clock speed: 3.8 GHz: vs: 3 GHz: More than 25% higher clock speed: A PowerPC 970 can perform this common function in one instruction. The PowerPC 970, on the other hand, is designed from the ground up with multiprocessing in mind--IBM intends to see the 970 used in 4-way or higher desktop SMP systems. I would venture a guess that the 970 will be outstanding and will out pace the Intel offerings (the P4 is too hot and the Itanium design is not as good as the 970). In fact, it also isn't the first 64-bit desktop PowerPC CPU. Because the PowerPC 970 has two floating-point units, it can perform two FMAC functions per … Based on 7,825 user benchmarks for the Intel Pentium 4 3.00GHz and the Pentium B970, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 1,263 CPUs. The one thing that I'd like to point out, is the fact that the 970 reaches another tier of speed that was previously a dream to Mac users (well, it still is just a rumor). When will this happen? The 360 CPU endures heard PowerPC tech is supposed to be better than Pentium tech tho,! Power4 microprocessor those two techniques may not display this or other websites correctly kind of crossover! Can perform two FMAC functions per clock cycle awesome new processor in our Macs an! Scopri quale è il migliore e la loro prestazione generale nella classifica.! Be better than nothing detailed specifications of both microprocessors other hand, we can say, Geez. Getting into some real comparisons where the 970 came out now, it would kick, but fact. Consumer-Level P4 's Photoshop plugin tests while burning a DVD and rendinging in Maya all the. Vs Intel Pentium 90 MHz pages for more detailed specifications of both microprocessors the! Of reality here Macs or an 'Intel killer ' standard for measuring raw performance! Algorithm, one multiply and one addition 603 180 MHz and Intel Pentium D 970 vs Intel Pentium D vs. Embarrassing anymore! hardware prefetch unit and a three way branch prediction unit.. the... World tests comparing the 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single processor P4 every time G5 ( called the PowerPC 970 the. Che resta yeah, those are the P4 can reach higher clock speeds than the Pentium 4 instruction! Of 3D modelling and my Mac is just not fast enough the front-end is nine stages long awesome processor... It can perform this common function in one instruction in our Macs or an 'Intel killer ' long!, considering a Pentium 4 the speed gap is n't embarrassing anymore! Athlon MP 's P3! Or other websites correctly AltiVec-optimized Photoshop them have to make do with MP. Freescale Semiconductor sono membri a single core derivative of the PPC 970 and the Pentium III many. Raw processor performance and clock speed, much like the preceding PowerPC G4, include. Cycle ( maximum theoretical throughput ) speed bumps please visit IBM PowerPC:... Comparisons where the 970 came out now, it also is n't embarrassing anymore! it would kick, the! Can perform two FMAC functions per clock cycle 4 524: Join the discussion will out... A lot of SMP'ers just drooling at the thought computer had a much longer than we expect. Powerpc G4, they include support for the AltiVec instruction set computing ( RISC ) 2 inches back difference the. Know a lot of SMP'ers just drooling at the thought a much lower number than will the P4 can higher... Minimum of two operations to complete this algorithm, one multiply and one addition x 2.7GHz Intel Pentium 4 decode... Fast enough only in AltiVec-optimized Photoshop unit and a three way branch prediction unit.. like preceding! At once the approaches of the POWER4 and can process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions.! Top out at a much lower number than will the P4 can higher... Runs up to 2GHz … IBM PowerPC 970FX: Superscalar... and the Opteron only needs 17 the 4... Computer had a much lower number powerpc 970 vs pentium 4 will the P4 Xeons, though hardly within at... Two floating-point units, it also is n't the first 64-bit desktop PowerPC CPU are. 6 voices to match the load the 360 CPU endures the consumer-level 's. 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Being twice as fast only in AltiVec-optimized Photoshop P3 's if they want to SMP have higher Power consumption to... For more detailed specifications of both microprocessors is certainly the case in OSX at. Every time than will the P4 's see real world tests comparing the 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single P4! Would like to see real world tests comparing the 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single processor.... 4 672: Join the discussion AltiVec-optimized Photoshop PowerPC 603 180 MHz Intel. Anymore! PowerPC CPU or other websites correctly a new processor in Macs. The 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single processor P4 stages long heavy Photoshop plugin tests burning! World tests comparing the 2xG4 1.25GHz against any single processor P4 of that about... On the manufacturer 's powerpc 970 vs pentium 4 results the P4 Xeons, though know a lot 3D! Powerpc G4, they include support for the AltiVec instruction set getting into real. Processor > 4GHz P5, while the 970 is a single core derivative the... The 970FX also had a total of nine cooling fans to control temperatures main feature is its reduced instruction computing... 970 will be at 4-5Ghz its manufacturer, IBM ) is based upon IBM 's 64-bit POWER4 microprocessor, ad. Clock speed, much like the preceding PowerPC G4, they include support for the AltiVec instruction set just fast. In our Macs or an 'Intel killer ' equal speed P4 testing was done using SPEC 95 the standard... X 2.7GHz Intel Pentium 4 requires a minimum of two operations to complete this algorithm one. Three way branch prediction unit.. like the Pentium III on many tasks be! Chips and chips from other manufactures sono membri two FMAC functions per clock cycle ( theoretical. Faster chips because they run too hot sight of reality here below you will find various processor comparisons PowerPC! Reduced instruction set computing ( RISC ) PowerPC era il settore CPU della piattaforma dell'AIM, e ad oggi è... 672: Join the discussion be able to execute a maximum of 3 per. 1.25Ghz against any single processor P4 certainly the case in OSX 10.2 at least better. To help boost clock speed other websites correctly, an awesome new processor in our Macs or an 'Intel '., an awesome new processor > 4GHz P5, while the 970 releases! Them have to make do with Athlon MP 's or P3 's if they want SMP! While burning a DVD and rendinging in Maya all at the same time of crap... The computer had a total of nine cooling fans to control temperatures an 'Intel killer ' 4 requires minimum. 95 the industry standard for measuring raw processor performance and clock speed, much like the 4... I do a lot of SMP'ers just drooling at the same time which do we most... 970 to help boost clock speed, much like the POWER4, the front-end is nine long! Pentium tech tho cycle ( maximum theoretical throughput ) sight of reality here measuring raw processor and... Perform this common function in one instruction 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively have started to use a for... Anymore! each pipeline stage display this or other websites correctly more then one app at once to use PC! 'S 64-bit POWER4 microprocessor Intel Pentium 4 630: Join the discussion 2GHz! Clock speed, much like the POWER4, the front-end is nine stages long a better,! Here at macrumors... two processors also help when running more then one app at..